Vuoi reagire a questo messaggio? Crea un account in pochi click o accedi per continuare.


Ciao a te e benvenuto nel forum della Associazione Culturale ZONACUSTICA. L'obiettivo di questo posto è dare spazio a chi ha voglia e bisogno di disquisire riguardo alla MUSICA ACUSTICA, con particolare attenzione per la musica di chitarra.
 
IndiceCercaUltime immaginiRegistratiAccedi
Cerca
 
 

Risultati per:
 
Rechercher Ricerca avanzata
Ultimi argomenti attivi
» Una voce che grida nel deserto
Che finezza EmptyMer Nov 10, 2021 11:58 pm Da Sandro

» Martin d18v
Che finezza EmptySab Giu 12, 2021 6:09 pm Da carlob

» Come state?
Che finezza EmptyLun Feb 01, 2021 10:38 am Da carlob

» Venerdì 13 Dicembre Milano Guitar Night
Che finezza EmptyMar Dic 10, 2019 7:03 pm Da VAL

» Miniflex mic model 4
Che finezza EmptyGio Mar 14, 2019 8:00 pm Da osvi

» Bob Brozman.. Parliamone
Che finezza EmptyVen Ott 26, 2018 11:31 am Da giuseppe.santagada

» Yamaha fg720s-12 e parlor vintage
Che finezza EmptyVen Ott 19, 2018 11:40 pm Da fabfor

» Dare una sistemata al forum
Che finezza EmptyVen Ago 17, 2018 8:45 am Da othellico

» digitech trio
Che finezza EmptyVen Lug 06, 2018 2:37 am Da pacoseven

» 2° Open Mic presso El Magasin "soto le visele"
Che finezza EmptyVen Giu 22, 2018 6:36 pm Da Sandro

I link degli amici
logo

Che finezza Banner10



Che finezza Sixban10


musicisti
GIOVANNI FERRO
Chi è online?
In totale ci sono 5 utenti online: 0 Registrati, 0 Nascosti e 5 Ospiti

Nessuno

Il numero massimo di utenti online contemporaneamente è stato 310 il Dom Lug 25, 2021 5:36 pm

 

 Che finezza

Andare in basso 
+3
Guidog
Shooter
flaviop
7 partecipanti
AutoreMessaggio
flaviop

flaviop


Messaggi : 199
Data d'iscrizione : 28.02.10
Età : 66
Località : Bovisio Masciago MB

Che finezza Empty
MessaggioTitolo: Che finezza   Che finezza EmptyDom Gen 02, 2011 12:05 am

Mi aveva attizzato con il bevel
Che finezza Ryan210
ma poi che finezza
Che finezza Ryan10
Torna in alto Andare in basso
Shooter

Shooter


Messaggi : 265
Data d'iscrizione : 01.02.10
Età : 63
Località : Caltanissetta

Che finezza Empty
MessaggioTitolo: Re: Che finezza   Che finezza EmptyMer Gen 05, 2011 10:50 am

Sull'Acoustic Guitar Magazine c'è un ariticolo dedicato alle chitarre spaziali di Ryan...un vero innovatore, come mi piacerebb provarle!
Torna in alto Andare in basso
Ospite
Ospite




Che finezza Empty
MessaggioTitolo: Re: Che finezza   Che finezza EmptyMer Gen 05, 2011 11:04 am

Anche come catenatura non scherza in originalita` ....

Che finezza EO20Bracing20Prime
Torna in alto Andare in basso
Shooter

Shooter


Messaggi : 265
Data d'iscrizione : 01.02.10
Età : 63
Località : Caltanissetta

Che finezza Empty
MessaggioTitolo: Re: Che finezza   Che finezza EmptyMer Gen 05, 2011 11:10 am

Come vedi ha alleggerito le carene, tecnica mutuata dall'ingegneria, aumentandone così la rigidità e allo stesso tempo diminuendo il peso, come nella paletta della slothead Smile
Torna in alto Andare in basso
Guidog

Guidog


Messaggi : 542
Data d'iscrizione : 27.10.09
Età : 63
Località : Milano

Che finezza Empty
MessaggioTitolo: Re: Che finezza   Che finezza EmptyMer Gen 05, 2011 11:14 am

non credo che la rigidita' aumenti, credo che sia solo una questione di peso
Torna in alto Andare in basso
Shooter

Shooter


Messaggi : 265
Data d'iscrizione : 01.02.10
Età : 63
Località : Caltanissetta

Che finezza Empty
MessaggioTitolo: Re: Che finezza   Che finezza EmptyMer Gen 05, 2011 11:38 am

Aumenta eccome Guido, anche se è legno, non si tratta solo di peso, in aereonautica si usa per esempio nella costruzione delle ali, praticando dei fori nelle sezioni di supporto longitudinali non solo si diminuise il peso ma si aumenta di molto la rigidità strutturale del tutto. I romani hanno usato una tecnica simile per costruire la cupola del pantheon, che anche se allegerita sarebbe crollata da secoli se non fosse anche strutturalmente più solida grazie all'allegerimento. Un esempio prefetto sono gli I-Beams in acciaio, piegarne uno pieno è molto più facile che piegarne uno a forma di I , che è più leggero ma anche rigiddissimo. Ryan lavorava presso una compagnia di progettazione aereonautica, ecco dove ha imparato queste tecniche....Un'altro esempio lo puoi avere da un tubo in ferro, prova a piegarne uno pieno e poi prova a piegarne uno vuoto, e vedi qual'è più rigido.
Torna in alto Andare in basso
Shooter

Shooter


Messaggi : 265
Data d'iscrizione : 01.02.10
Età : 63
Località : Caltanissetta

Che finezza Empty
MessaggioTitolo: Questo è l'articolo per intero   Che finezza EmptyMer Gen 05, 2011 11:52 am

Ryan Guitars
Known for his meticulous craftsmanship and innovative building techniques, luthier Kevin Ryan specializes in custom fingerstyle guitars.

By Doug Young

Kevin Ryan
Kevin Ryan holds a Nightingale model built with Indian rosewood back and sides and a Swiss spruce top. Photo by Bob Neff.

As interest in guitars made in small shops has grown over the past couple of decades, a small group of luthiers has achieved legendary status among players, collectors, and other builders. One of these is California luthier Kevin Ryan, whose guitars have become known among players, from amateurs to professionals, for their rich tone, extraordinary playability, and beautiful design. Ryan’s high-tech approach to building instruments has been a constant since he introduced his first model in 1988.

From the beginning, Ryan has designed his guitar specifically for fingerstyle guitarists, and his clientele has included such notables as Pierre Bensusan, Michael Chapdelaine, Pat Donahue, Peter Finger, Laurence Juber, and Eric Lugosch. In addition, Acoustic Guitar readers have honored Ryan with several Player’s Choice Awards. Over the past two decades, Ryan has built more than 700 guitars, while establishing a reputation for leading-edge innovation in the guitars themselves as well as the processes he uses to build them. We talked to Ryan about how he got started, his approach to design and building, and the instruments he produces.



From Aerospace to Lutherie

Che finezza KevinRyanEObracing

Kevin Ryan never imagined he would end up building guitars for a living when he was growing up in rural Ohio, where, after graduating from high school, he spent time working as a carpenter and cabinetmaker and playing acoustic guitar in a band. But in the mid-’80s he moved, along with his wife and parents, to Southern California to take a job in research and development at Northrop Grumman Corporation’s aerospace laboratory, building models of jet fighters to be tested in wind tunnels. At Northrop, Ryan began to pick up new skills, using high-tech tools to create new designs and pursuing extreme precision. “When I was a cabinetmaker, I thought in terms of 1/16th of an inch,” Ryan says, “but as model builders, we were dealing with 1/1,000th of an inch. It changes your whole mind-set.”

Around 1987, Ryan came across an article by Canadian luthier Grit Laskin in Fine Woodworking magazine about building a small-body steel-string guitar. Ryan was immediately fascinated both by the idea of building a guitar and the concept of a guitar with a smaller body than the dreadnoughts he was used to. He got a copy of a then-new book, William Cumpiano’s Guitarmaking: Tradition and Technology, which Laskin mentioned in the article, and began dreaming of building a guitar. Recalling his initial excitement, Ryan says, “It’s kind of like marriage—you need the irrational insanity called being in love to make the initial commitment. Guitar building is so difficult that if you don’t have that initial passion, it’s pretty tough to keep going.”

Ryan’s “irrational insanity” began to bear fruit relatively quickly. Even before completing his first guitar, which Ryan gave to his mother, friends and neighbors became curious about the guy building a guitar in his parents’ garage, and an acquaintance asked Ryan to build one for him as well. That first customer eventually led to an order from Al Stewart (of “Year of the Cat” fame), and Stewart’s new guitar attracted the interest of Laurence Juber, who was just beginning to gain notice in the fingerstyle guitar community.



Photos by Kevin Ryan unless otherwise indicated.
Mission Grand Concert

Early on, Ryan developed a basic design he called the Mission, drawing inspiration from Jim Olson’s small jumbo design as well as the Santa Cruz Guitar Company’s FS model. Like those guitars, Ryan’s Mission was intended for fingerstyle players and Ryan fairly quickly identified an ideal tone he hoped to achieve, one that balanced warmth and a bright shimmery tone, with a sparkle and clarity to the bass notes. Ryan says, “There are two ways to get a sparkly tone. If it’s bright because of the strings, it sounds metallic; I don’t like that at all. But if the brightness comes from the wood itself, I love that.” Particularly impressed by the cedar-topped guitar Olson had recently built for Phil Keaggy, Ryan was drawn to cedar tops—somewhat unusual at the time—as he pursued his ideal tone. However, he tended toward more traditional woods for his back and sides, generally preferring Indian rosewood, which he calls “the most underrated tonewood,” on his earliest instruments. Although today Ryan often builds with Brazilian rosewood, he says that at the time, Brazilian was “such a pricey wood, I didn’t feel like experimenting with it.”

Ryan delivered his fifth Mission to Juber in 1990. While Juber liked the guitar, he didn’t shy away from telling Ryan that he thought he could do better. Ryan wasn’t so sure. “I was devastated,” he says, and initially he had no idea how to improve the design. But Juber also commented that he wanted a guitar for alternate tunings. Ryan had a flash of inspiration that a longer scale length might work well for lowered tunings and decided to build a guitar with a 25.7-inch scale, slightly longer than the typical 25.5-inch scale found on most steel-strings. Juber was ecstatic about the result, and Ryan decided to stick with the longer scale, reinforced by Juber’s feedback that he liked the feel of the increased tension even in standard tuning.
A Penchant for Innovation
Kevin Ryan EO bracing system
Ryan’s EO (Engineered Openings) bracing system uses strategic laser cuts to reduce weight.

While switching to the longer scale length was a relatively modest change, it had a more significant long-term effect on Ryan’s approach to design, because he realized that he didn’t have to follow the beaten path. “When I first started building, it was all black magic,” he says. “But after a year or two, I thought, maybe there’s a little black magic, but there’s no law against changing things.” Ryan began to exploit some of the ideas he had picked up from structural engineers at Northrop. For example, he increased the width of his bridge from 6 inches to 63/4 inches to disperse the tension over a wider area of the top, which allowed him to make the top thinner, and he experimented with different approaches to bracing, taking the X braces right to the corners of the bridge plate (similar to Olson’s SJ) and moving the lower face brace closer to the bridge to reduce bellying of the top, which in turn allowed a lighter, thinner top. “Weight is the enemy,” Ryan says. “That has been a guiding principal to me.”

Ryan also discovered that he relished trying new things. “I’m never happier than when we’re sailing into uncharted waters and doing something that’s never been done before,” he says. While experimenting with a deeper body size, Ryan realized that the body needed to be tapered to make it comfortable to hold. He decided to introduce a radical radius for the back to decrease the guitar’s depth at the upper bout, while increasing the depth at the tail block. While many builders were using a 15-foot or even 12-foot radius for their guitar backs, Ryan chose a seven-foot radius, creating an extreme arch. Although meant partly for comfort, Ryan says, “I knew from engineering that if you bend any thin plate into a radius, you increase the effective strength. That meant the back could be lighter. And the guitar just looked sexier.”

Ryan guitars also feature less visible innovations inside the instruments. For example, the highly radiused back presented a problem with the traditional approach to kerfing, which Ryan solved by designing a unique, flexible kerfing. Another hidden feature is his wide, micro-adjustable, differentially threaded truss rod, which Ryan calls one of his most important innovations. The chrome truss rod takes up a large cross section of the neck, and is extremely stiff, creating a very stable neck, while the micro-adjustment mechanism allows Ryan to dial in a very precise amount of relief. Another internal feature that is somewhat visible is the laser-cut EO (Engineered Openings) bracing system, which Ryan introduced in 2006. By removing material from the braces, Ryan continued the pattern of reducing weight while retaining strength and stiffness.
High-Tech Tools
Kevin Ryan laser-cut honeycomb
Ryan’s laser-cut honeycomb-like Acoustic Parallel Plate top reinforcement.

Many people have an image of the individual luthier painstakingly handcrafting guitars with sandpaper and chisels. Ryan chose a different approach, taking advantage of his high-tech background to develop tools and processes to facilitate the construction and create repeatable processes. “I had a mania for tools right from the get-go,” Ryan says. “My family and friends called me the Jig Meister, and they’d say, ‘You don’t want to build guitars, you want to build tools!’”

Ryan’s fascination with tools led him to increasingly high-tech approaches, and he credits Bob Taylor for helping him in his developments. Before long he acquired a CNC (computer numerical control) machine, a complex tool that allows Ryan to develop designs in a computer CAD program, which then directs the machine to perform precise cutting and routing operations. With the CNC machine, Ryan was able to introduce more precise and intricate details, including his MicroPearl inlay around the headstock and rosette, as well as blind fret slots where the binding is integrated with the fretboard. While some feel that CNC machines take some of the romance out of building, Ryan disagrees, viewing the machines as creativity boosters. Before he started using CNC machines, he says, “I’d have an idea, and I’d be depressed because I’d realize I couldn’t do it. With the CNC and laser, I have ideas, and I can do them.”

One recent CNC-enabled development is the Acoustic Parallel Plate (APP), a complex laser-cut honeycomb structure that is partly Ryan’s answer to the increasingly popular double-top concept. The APP allows Ryan to eliminate all bracing below the X brace, creating an even lighter, more-responsive top.
The Ryan Bevel
Kevin Ryan bevel and flutes
Ryan’s bevel and acoustic flutes on a Brazilian rosewood Nightingale.

One of Ryan’s best-known creations is the Ryan Bevel, a smooth beveled edge on the lower bout of the guitar. Like his original foray into guitar building, the inspiration for the bevel came from Grit Laskin, who had designed an armrest to eliminate the sharp edge of the guitar body under the player’s arm. Ryan liked Laskin’s idea, but wanted to do it differently for both aesthetic and technical reasons. Ryan showed Laskin his conceptual design and got his blessing to pursue the concept, which he spent two years perfecting. While Laskin’s armrest is mitered into the body with a clear beginning and end, Ryan wanted the bevel to feather in at the waist and out at the tail block, with no definite starting or end point. The continuous bevel provides comfort for players, regardless of where their arm falls on the guitar.

Visually, the bevel appears to be a continuation of the binding, and Ryan uses the same woods, generally Macassar ebony or koa for both the bevel and the binding. Ryan also feels that his bevel design makes a positive contribution to the tone of his guitars by essentially combining the optimal treble and midrange response of a slightly smaller soundboard with the bass response of a larger body.

The latest twist to the bevel is a feature Ryan calls Acoustic Flutes—basically miniature soundports in the bevel. Ryan was intrigued by the way soundports in the side of the guitar enhanced the players’ experience, but resisted the approach other builders were using. “We wanted to have some fun with it,” he says. “We came up with the idea of oval holes, which are a nonisometric ellipse. It’s very natural, because it makes you think of a chambered nautilus. The other thing is that it looks like the vent ports on some ’57 Buick!”
Zeroing in on Tone

While Ryan relishes the opportunity to exercise his creativity, he also has a more methodical engineering side. For example, he took a very deliberate approach to learning how to tune his tops. Many luthiers rely on “tap tuning,” the process of tapping a potential top and listening to how it responds. Ryan thought the process was too subjective. “I felt that if I tapped on that top Monday morning, it would sound different to me than if I tapped on it Wednesday evening,” he says. Instead, he created a graph—a Cartesian coordinate system, with the weight of a top on one axis, and its deflection under a known weight on the other. After each guitar was finished, he evaluated its tone and marked the graph at the appropriate spot, using a color code to indicate a range from “OK” to “great.” While following a scientific methodology, the evaluation criteria was necessarily subjective, and Ryan’s ratings were based on how close he felt each instrument came to his ideal tone, which Ryan says includes “a beautiful blossom to the notes.”

It didn’t take long for a pattern to emerge, and Ryan found that all of the “great” guitars fell within a small range of weight and deflection, which is essentially a way to characterize the density of the wood. Today, Ryan simply chooses tops to match the range of weight and deflection he initially identified, with the exact numbers varying according to the size of the guitar.
A Flurry of New Models

After years of being known for a single model, Ryan began to design a new, large-body guitar he called the Cathedral in 2002. In contrast to the Mission’s now classic lines, Ryan wanted the Cathedral to be somewhat avant-garde, drawing some inspiration from Steve Klein’s jumbo-size M-43. At the same time, John Schroeder, a longtime friend and original founder of Fingerstyle Guitar magazine, proposed a project to build four parlor guitars based on an arts-and-crafts theme. Ryan was intrigued by the idea, and recalls that it was “fun to take a theme—a graphic design movement, but also an architectural movement—and translate that into a guitar.” The parlor design led to another new model, the Abbey.

While working on these designs, Ryan learned that Pierre Bensusan was looking for a new instrument. Collaborating with Bensusan, Ryan created a guitar that he offered as a signature model from 2002 to 2006; that same design process also resulted in another model, the Nightingale.

In 2009, Ryan revealed yet another model, the Paradiso, which was driven by customer requests for a Mission with a bevel. Ryan felt the bevel didn’t work aesthetically on the Mission—which has a different shape than the CAD-designed curves of his later models—so he designed a new body roughly the size of the Mission, but with a new shape that accommodates the bevel.
Setting Up Shop

Although his parents’ garage served Ryan well when he was starting, he soon needed more space and in 2000, he moved to his current location in Westminster, California, a jam-packed 2,300-square-foot facility where every nook and cranny is filled with workbenches, jigs, molds, and machines, along with spray and curing booths for the ultraviolet-finish process Ryan uses. The shop also includes a mezzanine area that is used for wood storage, a small office, a setup room, and a photo studio.

As his business grew, Ryan moved from being a one-man shop to employing a small team that turned out 85 guitars annually at the peak, but he quickly discovered he would rather spend more time on the bench than in the office. Today, Ryan Guitars is largely a family-run business, producing 27 guitars in the past year. Ryan’s wife, Barbara, handles the books and runs the office, and their 13-year-old son, James, is learning the ropes of guitar building from his father. The Advanced Shell Technology (AST) side of Ryan’s business (see “Advanced Technologies”) is handled by Jamie Maisano, with the assistance of James’s godmother, Eileen Egloff.

When it comes to hands-on guitar building, Ryan shares the bench with Bob Neff, whom he has known for 35 years, going back to his days in Ohio, where Neff taught Ryan how to rebuild player pianos. Ryan and Neff have gravitated over time to their own areas of expertise, often handing guitars back and forth during the building process. “I carve the necks, Bob does the finishing, he does the fretting, I do the fret dressing,” Ryan says. “At this point, there are things that Bob does where he’s the best in the world. You don’t want me doing those things; you want the best guy in the world doing them, and that’s Bob.”
Working with Guitarists

As with most builders, Ryan enjoys the personal element of working with customers. Some customers simply want to replicate a Ryan they have seen, while others want to customize and be involved in every design detail. For customers who aren’t sure what they want, Ryan tries to provide some guidance, although he recommends that customers trust their instincts on wood choices. “I will say, ‘Right now, if I press you, you probably have an instinct of what you should have,’ and I find almost always they’re exactly right.”

Ryan also suggests that people narrow their choices systematically. “If you tell me you want a really responsive guitar, and you have a light touch, then good choices are Swiss spruce, Engelmann spruce, cedar, or redwood,” he says. “Then narrow it down. Do you like the look of dark wood? If not, then cedar and redwood are off the table.”

Ryan recognizes that while the sound of a guitar is paramount, players care about other aspects, as well. “We’re not just selling an instrument, we’re selling something they’re going to cherish,” he says. “We want them to be drawn to it. It’s the whole package—how it smells, how it feels, even the experience of buying it. It’s about getting joy from it, and that works at so many different levels.”
Unique Custom Instruments
Lindisfarne Gospels

In addition to making guitars meant for players, Ryan also enjoys building guitars with special design features that appeal to collectors as well as his own sense of fun. One of the first examples was the four-guitar series of Arts and Crafts Parlor guitars, which presented a completely alternative look and contrasted with Ryan’s usual modern image. Ryan has also produced a series of Signature models so unique that he has given them individual names. The “Dragon,” the “Gold Rush,” and the “Ghost” are all named for unique characteristics of the rare wood used in the guitars.

Ryan recently collaborated with inlay master Larry Robinson on a special project known as the Lindisfarne guitar. Ryan built the Nightingale-based guitar with back and sides from a holly bush, and Robinson re-created the ornate illuminated manuscript of an 8th-century Christian manuscript known as the Lindisfarne Gospels. The resulting instrument is unique, and perhaps sets a record for the asking price of a modern instrument: $400,000! Detailed information about the project can be seen at Robinson’s website (robinsoninlays.com).
Advanced Technologies

As Ryan developed new techniques, he began to realize that some of the techniques he created to solve his own challenges might be of use to others. For example, one source of frustration was the time required to add abalone purfling to his guitars. What started as a simple effort to speed up the process grew into three years of research and development, resulting in a flexible purfling strip Ryan calls ZipFlex.

The ZipFlex manufacturing process combines Ryan’s CNC and laser expertise with proprietary materials developed in conjunction with 3M. During the long development cycle, Ryan realized “if I was doing it just for myself, it was the worst investment I’d made. But if I could make it work, it would transform the inlay of guitar.” Since its introduction in 2009, ZipFlex has done just that, shortening the time of the process from an hour to just minutes, and luthiers all over the world purchase ZipFlex from Ryan’s company Advanced Shell Technology (AST, advancedshelltech.com). Several larger companies, including Taylor and Paul Reed Smith, have also taken notice, and are now using Ryan’s ZipFlex material.

Ryan also sells his flexible kerfing, as well as plasma-coated titanium bridge pins customized for him by Tisonix. Ryan feels these pins increase sustain, and they are available as an option on Ryan Guitars. Ryan expects to make even more technologies available through AST over time.
Ryan Models

Ryan Guitars currently offers five basic models, each of which can be extensively customized. All guitars can be ordered with a cutaway, and all guitars except the Mission can be ordered with a bevel. Ryan offers an extensive selection of tonewoods, stock and custom inlays, and more. All Ryan guitars except the Abbey come with a standard scale length of 25.7 inches and a 1.75-inch nut width, although both can be customized. Ryan also offers a 12-string option on most models.
Abbey Grand Parlor

1. Abbey Grand Parlor The smallest guitar Ryan builds, this parlor guitar measures only 14 inches at the lower bout and features standard scale lengths of 25 or 25.5 inches. Base price: $7,000.

2. Mission Grand Concert This is the instrument that put Ryan on the map, and the moderately sized small-body guitar (15.25 inches at the lower bout) remains a popular choice for fingerstyle players. Base price: $7,200.

3. Paradiso Grand Concert Ryan’s newest instrument (15.3 inches at the lower bout) is a modern reinvention of the Mission that can include a bevel and features Ryan’s Parallel Acoustic Plate as standard equipment. Base price: $7,200.

4. Nightingale Grand Soloist Designed as a modern fingerstyle guitar with a body that measures 16 inches at the lower bout, the Nightingale falls between the size of the Mission and Cathedral. Base price: $8,000.

5. Cathedral Grand Fingerstyle Measuring 16.6 inches at the lower bout, this is truly a jumbo guitar, with a deep voice to match. Base price: $8,500.

Ryan Signature Guitars Ryan offers a Signature upgrade package for any instrument. All Signature guitars are built from Ryan’s private stash of old-growth Brazilian rosewood and include the choice of any soundboard as well as numerous upgrades. Prices start at $18,000 for the Abbey, $20,000 for the Mission, $21,000 for the Nightingale, and $22,000 for the Cathedral.

Che finezza KevinRyanModels
Torna in alto Andare in basso
Guidog

Guidog


Messaggi : 542
Data d'iscrizione : 27.10.09
Età : 63
Località : Milano

Che finezza Empty
MessaggioTitolo: Re: Che finezza   Che finezza EmptyMer Gen 05, 2011 12:50 pm

Shooter, quello che voglio dire e' che se tu prendi una catena a sezione costante e la scavi, la sua resistenza a flessione NON aumenta di certo.
Torna in alto Andare in basso
Shooter

Shooter


Messaggi : 265
Data d'iscrizione : 01.02.10
Età : 63
Località : Caltanissetta

Che finezza Empty
MessaggioTitolo: Re: Che finezza   Che finezza EmptyMer Gen 05, 2011 1:23 pm

Ciao Guido

A guardarle non mi pare che le catene usate da Ryan siano a sezione costante....o sbaglio?

Vincent
Torna in alto Andare in basso
pacoseven

pacoseven


Messaggi : 1263
Data d'iscrizione : 17.11.09
Località : colli berici / tana degli orsi

Che finezza Empty
MessaggioTitolo: Re: Che finezza   Che finezza EmptyMer Gen 05, 2011 1:41 pm

Guidog ha scritto:
Shooter, quello che voglio dire e' che se tu prendi una catena a sezione costante e la scavi, la sua resistenza a flessione NON aumenta di certo.
chiaramente Guido non intendeva costante in tutta la sua lunghezza...
non sono un ingegnere , ma mi diletto col legno...e non è un materiale compatto come l'alluminio o il ferro , ma ha delle fibre di cui bisogna tenere conto.
Questo liutaio sa sicuramente il fatto suo ..le sue catene saranno sicuramente robuste a sufficienza , ma non credo che siano PIU' robuste di catene della stessa sezione in materiale pieno....
sicuramente potranno essere più responsive e vibrare meglio assieme al top , perchè la forma scavata ne amplifica le possibilità in questo senso.....
Torna in alto Andare in basso
Ste

Ste


Messaggi : 71
Data d'iscrizione : 08.12.10
Età : 38
Località : Piacenza

Che finezza Empty
MessaggioTitolo: Re: Che finezza   Che finezza EmptyMer Gen 05, 2011 2:36 pm

Invece credo anch'io che siano più rigide.
Di fatto così sezione le fibre longitudinali che darebbero flessibilità e crea una struttura a capriate, dove i vettori di forza dovuti alle strutture triangolari irrigidiscono la struttura. Indirizzando i vettori di forza sui tre vertici del triangolo aumenta la rigidità.
E' lo stesso in anatomia per le cavità paranasali e orbitali, strutture vuote a capriate, quindi più resistenti che se fossero piene e soprattutto più leggere.
Torna in alto Andare in basso
Ste

Ste


Messaggi : 71
Data d'iscrizione : 08.12.10
Età : 38
Località : Piacenza

Che finezza Empty
MessaggioTitolo: Re: Che finezza   Che finezza EmptyMer Gen 05, 2011 2:38 pm

Guidog ha scritto:
Shooter, quello che voglio dire e' che se tu prendi una catena a sezione costante e la scavi, la sua resistenza a flessione NON aumenta di certo.

Se la scavi e basta no di certo, se la scavi a tetraedro, quindi basandoti sul triangolo, si allora che cambia e si irrigidisce.
Torna in alto Andare in basso
Shooter

Shooter


Messaggi : 265
Data d'iscrizione : 01.02.10
Età : 63
Località : Caltanissetta

Che finezza Empty
MessaggioTitolo: Re: Che finezza   Che finezza EmptyMer Gen 05, 2011 2:53 pm

Ste ha scritto:
Invece credo anch'io che siano più rigide.
Di fatto così sezione le fibre longitudinali che darebbero flessibilità e crea una struttura a capriate, dove i vettori di forza dovuti alle strutture triangolari irrigidiscono la struttura. Indirizzando i vettori di forza sui tre vertici del triangolo aumenta la rigidità.
E' lo stesso in anatomia per le cavità paranasali e orbitali, strutture vuote a capriate, quindi più resistenti che se fossero piene e soprattutto più leggere.


Era proprio quello che stavo per dire io.... Very Happy
Torna in alto Andare in basso
Guidog

Guidog


Messaggi : 542
Data d'iscrizione : 27.10.09
Età : 63
Località : Milano

Che finezza Empty
MessaggioTitolo: Re: Che finezza   Che finezza EmptyMer Gen 05, 2011 2:53 pm

ok lo dico in altro modo, ma alla fine in queste cose si corre il rischio di annoiare i leggenti, lol
Se tu prendi le catene di quelle ryan li' e le riempi di legno dove adesso ci sono i buchi, otterrai circa la stessa resistenza a flessione, ma catene piu' pesanti.
Per il calcolo della resistenza a flessione e' chiaro che devi considerare tutta la catena e quindi il calcolo e' piuttosto complesso. Ad esempio il tubo vuoto che fa piu' resistenza del tubo pieno a flessione: questo non e' vero se la sezione del tubo e' la stessa, ma e' vero a pari peso del tubo, ovvero a pari materiale impiegato. Il concetto e' un po' questo, si cerca di alleggerire la struttura senza perdere rigidita'.
D'altra parte lo dice anche Ryan, il nemico e' il peso
"Ryan’s EO (Engineered Openings) bracing system uses strategic laser cuts to reduce weight"
Torna in alto Andare in basso
Ste

Ste


Messaggi : 71
Data d'iscrizione : 08.12.10
Età : 38
Località : Piacenza

Che finezza Empty
MessaggioTitolo: Re: Che finezza   Che finezza EmptyMer Gen 05, 2011 2:58 pm

Guidog ha scritto:
ok lo dico in altro modo, ma alla fine in queste cose si corre il rischio di annoiare i leggenti, lol
Se tu prendi le catene di quelle ryan li' e le riempi di legno dove adesso ci sono i buchi, otterrai circa la stessa resistenza a flessione, ma catene piu' pesanti.

Si, se ora le riempissi di legno si perchè le fibre sono sezionate e i vettori sono stabiliti, ma se confrontassi la rigidità originaria della catena in questione con quella della catena una volta bucata, credo che la troveresti più rigida da bucata che da piena.

In realtà stiamo parlando del sesso degli angeli, ma sarebbe carino vederci chiaro! Very Happy
Torna in alto Andare in basso
perrycoloso

perrycoloso


Messaggi : 1376
Data d'iscrizione : 02.04.10
Età : 40
Località : rimini

Che finezza Empty
MessaggioTitolo: Re: Che finezza   Che finezza EmptyMer Gen 05, 2011 2:59 pm

I love you I love you I love you
è...bellissima...
Torna in alto Andare in basso
pacoseven

pacoseven


Messaggi : 1263
Data d'iscrizione : 17.11.09
Località : colli berici / tana degli orsi

Che finezza Empty
MessaggioTitolo: Re: Che finezza   Che finezza EmptyMer Gen 05, 2011 3:02 pm

Ste ha scritto:
Guidog ha scritto:
ok lo dico in altro modo, ma alla fine in queste cose si corre il rischio di annoiare i leggenti, lol
Se tu prendi le catene di quelle ryan li' e le riempi di legno dove adesso ci sono i buchi, otterrai circa la stessa resistenza a flessione, ma catene piu' pesanti.

Si, se ora le riempissi di legno si perchè le fibre sono sezionate e i vettori sono stabiliti, ma se confrontassi la rigidità originaria della catena in questione con quella della catena una volta bucata, credo che la troveresti più rigida da bucata che da piena.

In realtà stiamo parlando del sesso degli angeli, ma sarebbe carino vederci chiaro! Very Happy
e in realtà bisogna vedere in che legno sono costruite e in che senso sono orientate le fibre...
Torna in alto Andare in basso
Guidog

Guidog


Messaggi : 542
Data d'iscrizione : 27.10.09
Età : 63
Località : Milano

Che finezza Empty
MessaggioTitolo: Re: Che finezza   Che finezza EmptyMer Gen 05, 2011 4:58 pm

la questione fibre del legno va al di la' ancora nel discorso, visto che appunto il legno e' un materiale anisotropo. Tanto per capirci potremmo prendere una materiale qualsiasi (isotropo), la plastica.
Posso dirti che: prendi due barre cilindriche identiche di plastica. Una piena. l'altra svuotata in parte (diventa un tubo)- la barra piena e' PIU' RESISTENTE alla flessione della barra vuota.
Se siamo d'accordo almeno su questo possiamo discutere del resto!!


Torna in alto Andare in basso
flaviop

flaviop


Messaggi : 199
Data d'iscrizione : 28.02.10
Età : 66
Località : Bovisio Masciago MB

Che finezza Empty
MessaggioTitolo: Re: Che finezza   Che finezza EmptyMer Gen 05, 2011 10:46 pm

Per uscire dal discorso ingegneristico, quello che mi salta all'occhio è che le catene hanno uno spessore maggiore di quelle che si usano normalmente, quindi allargando la sezione aumento la rigidità , ma anche il peso.
Quindi quelli sono solo allegerimenti "con una forma che sta bene" ottiene di irrigidire la struttura per ll'aumento della sezione e basta ...si parla di legno....per ottenere qualcosa di piu rigido, non dovrei scavare il legno ma costruire una specie di capriata di un tetto orientando le sezioni con il verso della vena che mi interessa.
Questo da falegname...
Torna in alto Andare in basso
pacoseven

pacoseven


Messaggi : 1263
Data d'iscrizione : 17.11.09
Località : colli berici / tana degli orsi

Che finezza Empty
MessaggioTitolo: Re: Che finezza   Che finezza EmptyGio Gen 06, 2011 9:35 am

flaviop ha scritto:
Per uscire dal discorso ingegneristico, quello che mi salta all'occhio è che le catene hanno uno spessore maggiore di quelle che si usano normalmente, quindi allargando la sezione aumento la rigidità , ma anche il peso.
Quindi quelli sono solo allegerimenti "con una forma che sta bene" ottiene di irrigidire la struttura per ll'aumento della sezione e basta ...si parla di legno....per ottenere qualcosa di piu rigido, non dovrei scavare il legno ma costruire una specie di capriata di un tetto orientando le sezioni con il verso della vena che mi interessa.
Questo da falegname...
che è quello che cercavo di dire io ....non da falegname , ma da "marangon"....
se quelle catene fossero costruite con pezzetti di legno incollati ,con le fibre orientate nel verso giusto , sarebbero iperrobuste.....
Torna in alto Andare in basso
wayx

wayx


Messaggi : 410
Data d'iscrizione : 28.10.09
Età : 65
Località : Firenze

Che finezza Empty
MessaggioTitolo: Re: Che finezza   Che finezza EmptyGio Gen 06, 2011 12:01 pm

Da ignorante apprendista falegname quale sono ho aspettato di leggere la risposta che mi confaceva, le vostre ultime infatti, ed ora mi accodo e quoto.. Smile

Per me il vecchio abete della
Val di Fiemme “spaccato” e ben sagomato e il tradizionale X bracing Martin non hanno ancora rivali.

affraid ...e scateniamo il flame della Befana!!!
Torna in alto Andare in basso
https://soundcloud.com/paolowayx
Ospite
Ospite




Che finezza Empty
MessaggioTitolo: Re: Che finezza   Che finezza EmptyGio Gen 06, 2011 12:26 pm



Ultima modifica di .g♥♪ il Gio Giu 02, 2011 8:18 pm - modificato 1 volta.
Torna in alto Andare in basso
Ospite
Ospite




Che finezza Empty
MessaggioTitolo: Re: Che finezza   Che finezza EmptyGio Gen 06, 2011 12:29 pm



Ultima modifica di .g♥♪ il Gio Giu 02, 2011 8:18 pm - modificato 1 volta.
Torna in alto Andare in basso
Ospite
Ospite




Che finezza Empty
MessaggioTitolo: Re: Che finezza   Che finezza EmptyGio Gen 06, 2011 6:23 pm

.0 ha scritto:
forse perchè non si può andare in giro con chitarre da 20.000 dollàri
magari in aereo...
Già,,,
sempre piaciute, le Ryan... Sad
Torna in alto Andare in basso
Contenuto sponsorizzato





Che finezza Empty
MessaggioTitolo: Re: Che finezza   Che finezza Empty

Torna in alto Andare in basso
 
Che finezza
Torna in alto 
Pagina 1 di 1

Permessi in questa sezione del forum:Non puoi rispondere agli argomenti in questo forum.
 :: SI PARLA DI MUSICA :: PARLIAMO DI CHITARRE-
Vai verso: